basketball moves

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basketball moves

Post by octavioa78 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:23 pm

I'm looking for the originators of a couple of basketball moves. Like the alley oop, between the leg dribble, hook shot, cross over, and reverse move. Please don't tell me the Globe Trotters. The Trotters are only responsible for the no look pass from what I've learned. The rest of the moves by white guys. But what white guys, is what I need to know. Also if you know the history of any other moves please tell me. I know the behind the back dribble was created by Bob Davies, the first team to dribble was Yale University, and so on ... I've also heard that Bob Davies was dribbling between his legs back in high school. Even had a over the head pass which was a no look pass as well. Please help me out.
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Post by Erik_Kowal » Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:46 pm

Octavio, it is possible that we have a basketball historian among the contributors to this site. However, since your question is basically about sport rather than words or word origins, it might be more fruitful for you to ask your question in a sports or basketball newsgroup.
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basketball moves

Post by Wizard of Oz » Sun Mar 19, 2006 3:01 am

.. octavioa .. didn't take me long to find this ..
At North Carolina State in the mid-1970s, Thompson was a three-time All-American and two-time College Player of the Year. It was Thompson who popularized the "alley-oop." Dunking in college games was against the rules at the time, so guard Monte Towe would toss the ball high up over the rim for Thompson to deposit into the basket.
Source: http://www.nba.com/history/thompson_bio.html
.. now I'm not saying that this is the answer and that this bloke Monte Towe was the guy who originated the alley oop but I do agree with Erik that you need to google up the basketball history sites ..

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basketball moves

Post by octavioa78 » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:43 am

Thanks guys. This does help a bit. But it just says Thompson popularized it. I think I've heard of a earlier date for the alley oop. But thank you very much for the suggestion and reply.
Wizard of Oz wrote: .. octavioa .. didn't take me long to find this ..
At North Carolina State in the mid-1970s, Thompson was a three-time All-American and two-time College Player of the Year. It was Thompson who popularized the "alley-oop." Dunking in college games was against the rules at the time, so guard Monte Towe would toss the ball high up over the rim for Thompson to deposit into the basket.
Source: http://www.nba.com/history/thompson_bio.html
.. now I'm not saying that this is the answer and that this bloke Monte Towe was the guy who originated the alley oop but I do agree with Erik that you need to google up the basketball history sites ..

WoZ of Aus 19/03/06
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Post by haro » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:56 pm

Octavio, the term 'alley oop' and the many ways how to spell it were discussed here: http://www.wordwizard.com/phpbb3/viewto ... alley,hoop . Although that thread doesn't say anything about who was the first to use the term in basketball, let alone who introduced the move, it may give you some hints for further research.
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Post by Ken Greenwald » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:19 pm

Octavio, In my 2004 discussion alley-oop (basketball), I wrote:
<“The basketball expression ‘alley-oop shot,’ originally meaning a shot which travels in a high arc, was coined in the late 1960s by Los Angeles Lakers broadcaster Chick Hearn to describe a shot used by Lakers guard John Egan when he had to shoot over taller players.”— Language of Sport by Considine.”>
Although Considine said Hearn (who began his career as Los Angeles Lakers announcer in 1965) was the coiner of the phrase ALLEY-OOP SHOT, Hearn may have just been the first to use that exact wording in reference to basketball (and now I’m not sure that’s even true). However the phrase ALLEY-OOP had long been used in football and basketball years before Hearn uttered it in the late 1960s.

I think it is actually football great Y. A. Tittle, with a strong assist from his San Francisco 49ers coach (1959-1963) Red Hickey, who should get credit as coiner of the sports ALLEY-OOP in describing a ball thrown in a high looping arc., when he said in a huddle in 1957 (see first 1957 quote and also 1964 quote for the full story), ‘The next play will be the ALLEY-OOP.’ The expression’s first appearance in print that I could locate in reference to the basketball ALLEY-OOP, occurred 2 years later (see 1959 quote below) with a claim that the play was a well-known staple of the San Francisco 49ers football team at that time.

But the question still remains, what was coach Red Hickey referring to when in 1957 he described the play as a “regular alley-oop,” which Tittle then immortalized as the name of the football play. It seems unlikely that he just pulled it out of thin air. The expression did first appear in 1926 in reference to giving encouragement or drawing attention to a physical performance, especially of French acrobats (the 'allez' connnection). But I think it actually became ingrained in the U.S. psyche as a result of the advent in 1930 of the famous comic strip of that name about an always exuberant cave man transported into the 21st century. And for those of us alive and listening to music in 1957, it was the name of a top ten hit song about that cartoon character. However, I believe that the following is a reasonably likely explanation for coach Hickey’s choice of words:

ALLEY OOP according to the Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE) is an exclamation that was called out when playing the street game ALLEY-OVER or ALLEY-ALLEY OVER, a.k.a OLLY-OLLY OVER, ILLY-ALLY-OVER, ICKY-ACKY-OVER, or ANTONY OVER – “A children’s game in which a ball is thrown over a building to a player or players on the other side. The name of the game is usually shouted as the ball is thrown.”

The high looping arc required to get a ball over a house/building would coincide with the Tittle coinage and DARE cites the children’s game and expression as being popular in the 1950s and 60s in several states at that time including Wisconsin, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, and Texas.

Although DARE does not explain the ALLEY and the OOP of the children’s game, I would think that the ALLEY being referred to might be the “ passage, as through a continuous row of houses, permitting access from the street to backyards, garages, etc., a narrow street, a lane,” from which the ball in the game was thrown, with the OOP simply being a variation of ‘up.’

It is possible, however that the cry of the ALLEY-OOP children’s game did not develop independently of the earlier cheer for a physical event (although the looping arc required of the ball in the child's game seems pretty compelling) and that the second was just an extended use of the first and the ‘alley’ had nothing to do with a narrow street. On the other hand, maybe it did for many folks and perhaps the final result was actually a blending of the two. But for now, it may be only Hickey’s ghost who knows the answer and we might just have to wait till we get to the other side to ask him and know the real answer for sure!
<1926 “We love to holler ‘ALLEZ-UP’! No matter what we do. That's why we always rally up When we're a little blue.”—in ‘Complete Lyrics of L. Hart’ (1986), ALLEZ-UP by L. Hart, page 76/1> [[the ‘French’ connection]]

<1926 “Two of Jeffries' adherents grabbed me by the feet, yelled ‘ALLEY OOP’ like a couple of acrobats and tossed me in the air.”—‘San Mateo Times & Daily News Leader (California),' 25 September, page 9/3>

<1950 “[[ALLEY-OVER]] Game in which you throw a ball over a low building.”—‘Wisconsin English Language Survey’ by Cassidy-Duckert>

<1957 “The San Franciscans had reached the Detroit 41-yard line when Tittle stole a quick look at the clock. It showed less than twenty seconds left. That settled it. Into the huddle moved the Forty-Niners. ‘The next play,’ barked Tittle, will be the ALLEY-OOP.’. . .Tittle fades back and throws a soft arching forward pass. . . The Forty-niners beat the Chicago Bears, 21—20, with the ALLEY-OOP, but did that rather prosaically."—‘New York Times,’ 29 November, page 36>

<1957 “I decided to go for the ALLEY-OOP pass. I knew I had to lay it in the end zone, high, and I just rared back and threw as hard as I could.”—in ‘Reno Evening Gazette’ (Nevada), statement by Y. A. Tittle, 4 November, page 14/2>

<1959 “Oroville using ‘ALLEY OOP’ play. The Oroville Tigers have adapted the San Francisco '49er football team's famed . . . play to their own use on the basketball court.”—(headline) ‘The Appeal Democrat (Marysville, California),' 21 January, page 6/1>

<1961 “When play resumed, John Havlicek, the big forward, tossed a high pass toward the bucket. Lucas, in what is called an ALLEY-OOP Special, was ready to leap and tap it in. . .”— ‘New York Times,’ 26 March, page S1>

<1961 “Thus far the most famous of all Tittle pass plays, the ALLEY-OOP, has never been used with the Giants. The probability is that it never will.”—‘New York Times,' 22 October. page S2>

<1964 “. . . Owens, the pass catcher with the kangaroo spring. He and Tittle combined to make the ALLEY OOP pass famous when they were with San Francisco. It was discovered by accident. One day when Yat [[a.k.a. Y. A. Tittle]] was trapped, he launched a high, arching throw far downfield. Even if intercepted it would be the equivalent of a punt. It wasn’t intercepted. Owens went approximately 10 feet in the air and hauled it in. ‘What a play!’ said the admiring Red Hickey, the 49er coach. ‘It was a regular ALLEY OOP! Thus was it named. . . .When the play was moved into the repertoire, it didn’t get a number as all other plays do. It went by its name. . . . The 49ers were trailing the Detroit Lions, 24 to 21, and had less than 20 seconds left in the game. San Francisco swung into the huddle. ‘The next play,’ barked Tittle, will be the ALLEY OOP,’ ‘I’ll be there,’ said Owens.”—‘New York Times,’ 26 August, page 46>

<1979 “After all, the savior of the Los Angeles Lakers, the National Basketball Association and the ALLEY-OOP pass still happens to be 19 years old. [[Magic Johnson]]”—‘New York Times,’ 30 July, page C2>
Ken G – March 23, 2006
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Post by octavioa78 » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:29 pm

Thanks but I'm not so much looking for the origin of the word. I've seen plenty explanations of it on line. But no info. on who originated the move known in basketball as the alley oop. When a player passes the ball to his partner over the hoop so he can easily lay or dunk it in. But thanks for the info.
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Post by Ken Greenwald » Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:13 am

Octavio, If the Oxford English Dictionary provided, as they did, the 1959 quote above as the first appearance in print (to their knowledge) and no one has provided an earlier one of ALLEY-OOP as a basketball move, if you are in earnest in your quest, you might want to contact the Appeal Democrat in Marysville, California, and ask them if they have any record, or could they tell you who might know, who the person was on that Oroville Tigers high school basketball team that performed the move described in their article of January 21, 1959.
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Post by octavioa78 » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:35 pm

Thanks Ken. You have gave me a valuable piece of info. I appreciate it. You wouldn't know by any chance how to contact them?
Ken Greenwald wrote:
Octavio, If the Oxford English Dictionary provided, as they did, the 1959 quote above as the first appearance in print (to their knowledge) and no one has provided an earlier one of ALLEY-OOP as a basketball move, if you are in earnest in your quest, you might want to contact the Appeal Democrat in Marysville, California, and ask them if they have any record, or could they tell you who might know, who the person was on that Oroville Tigers high school basketball team that performed the move described in their article of January 21, 1959.
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