another glitch

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another glitch

Post by dalehileman » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:46 pm

Any attempt to copy a thread and paste it somewhere else results in only partial transfer, with huge blacked-out areas where the remainder should be. Is this a gates or a WW glitch, and how does one cope with it--Thanks, guys
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another glitch

Post by Phil White » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:21 pm

How are you attempting to copy a thread? Ken is copying partial threads regularly as he is working his way through the mammoth task of cleaning up the Archives. Perhaps he can explain how he does it when he gets back, although I suspect that he does a lot of post-editing. Why attempt to copy and paste an entire thread anyway? Moderators or the forum administrator can move threads if you ask them nicely.
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Signature: Phil White
Non sum felix lepus

another glitch

Post by dalehileman » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:47 pm

How are you attempting to copy a thread?

Usual way: Edit, Select all, Copy, transfer, Edit, Paste

Ken is copying partial threads regularly...

Poor fellow, perhaps that's why we haven't heard from him for a while

Why attempt to copy and paste an entire thread anyway?

Why not?

Moderators or the forum administrator can move threads if you ask them nicely.

I'm sure they would but I hate to impose and besides copy-paste is far easier--when it works

Phil thank you again kindly for all your present and past help with all
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another glitch

Post by Phil White » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:19 pm

Yes, I can see that that would cause problems. With Edit -> Select all, you're selecting the entire HTML page including all the table cells etc. Not a wise move.

When the forum was set up, the team decided to disable many of the options that the software in theory provides. We all felt that thread splitting is extremely confusing, and moving a thread can also confuse things, so that option is restricted to moderators.
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Signature: Phil White
Non sum felix lepus

another glitch

Post by dalehileman » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:34 pm

Owing to the many improvements you fellas have recently performed on the algorithm, I'll happily put up with a few minor inconveniences
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another glitch

Post by haro » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:24 pm

Dale, as I mentioned on another thread, Ken is on vacation and will be back soon and, as I hope, with recharged batteries.

Phil is right. Many applications cannot handle HTML properly. Even browsers (which, simply put, are viewers specializing in displaying HTML) sometimes make a mess due to incompatibilities, sloppy programming, version conflicts and proprietary handling of HTML code.

Especially Micro$oft is notorious for adding new features to Internet Explorer and Frontpage (their WYSIWYG HTML editor) that try to turn users into slaves of their own products. But even within the pure-bred M$ range of applications there still are hundreds of incompatibilities.

Basically, HTML (the content of a Web page) is not a text data format but a primitive page description language. It mainly describes the layout of the whole page; the text is only the stuffing. Because HTML is a bit clumsy, additional coding systems and languages are used to refine the layout and presentation, such as CSS (Cascading Style Sheets).

When you "Select all" and "Copy," most of that non-textual stuff is copied too, but most text processing applications cannot properly handle that part, so a mess often is inevitable. Only very simple HTML pages can be copied and pasted without problems. Sorry, a forum thread definitely isn't a simple piece of HTML.
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Signature: Hans Joerg Rothenberger
Switzerland

another glitch

Post by dalehileman » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:07 am

Hans thank you. Yes, definitely it isn't.

God love Bill Gates and all his gremlins
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another glitch

Post by Phil White » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:11 pm

Hans Jörg
Sorry, a forum thread definitely isn't a simple piece of HTML.
Tell me about it!
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Signature: Phil White
Non sum felix lepus

another glitch

Post by haro » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:36 pm

Phil, what I meant is that HTML originally was designed to show items such as chunks of text, pictures and hyperlinks on a page without too much fuss about details of the layout. Tables were meant for tabular stuff, not for layout. W3 authorities always have discouraged the segmentation of text by HTML tables.

On the other hand, there also is a growing movement against tables for text layout, supported by various organizations, for instance because tables are quite an obstacle for screen reader applications used by visually impaired persons. In Germany, there are new regulations that limit the use of tables on Web sites published by authorites and agencies.

However, a Web forum page inevitably is one huge system of nested tables, far away from the original intentions of HTML. That maze of tables is necessary because there is no other way to get an acceptable presentation on the page, but it's not a simple piece of HTML.
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Signature: Hans Joerg Rothenberger
Switzerland

another glitch

Post by Phil White » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:28 pm

Hans,

You missed the idiom. "Tell me about it" (often preceded in the UK by "Yeah,") is one of the magnificent idioms which means the opposite of what it says. Having spent days, if not weeks, looking at the code of the forum to see where to make the changes the team wanted, I don't need anyone to tell me how complex a thread is. The HTML is bad enough. You should see the ASP that generates it!
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Signature: Phil White
Non sum felix lepus

another glitch

Post by haro » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:24 pm

Phil, so far I've not gone further than taking a glance at the HTML code. Sorry I missed the idiom indeed. Thanks. I must admit I'm very bad at idioms. That's due to lack of practice. Believe it or not, last summer I spent my first three weeks in an English speaking country (whose president is struggling with this language too, which makes me feel a bit better).
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Signature: Hans Joerg Rothenberger
Switzerland

another glitch

Post by dalehileman » Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:29 pm

Hans you should feel very good indeed

"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is underestimating"--GWB
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another glitch

Post by Phil White » Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:17 pm

Hey, I love it! Mozilla highlights and prettifies the source code when you look at it. Points to Firefox!
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Signature: Phil White
Non sum felix lepus

another glitch

Post by haro » Thu Feb 24, 2005 2:40 am

Phil, you might also try Portable Firefox ( http://portablefirefox.mozdev.org/ ), a version that needs no installation, doesn't clog your system folders with gazilllions of DLLs yet does most of what the regular Firefox does. It can even be loaded on a memory stick to be used on other computers. Works a treat.
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Signature: Hans Joerg Rothenberger
Switzerland

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