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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:43 am
This is a general question that I am not sure how to pose. I'm not even sure what my thoughts will settle down to in order to form the questions. The thoughts are a mishmash of "the problem of Inventing new words when needed, and the introduction of those words invented or constucted ( by new arraingement of existing words ) into the consensual common vocabulary. This is all being prompted by the direction taken by the topic ( General Semantics, postmodernism and Wordwizard ) and the current prevalence in TV advertisment of "MERC" styl ads. What I think I want is some one to suggest a new word for when It is noticed that a word manufactured in an ad, is uttered by someone in a normal conversation. As an example, could some one be sure and give notice to this forum when they hear someone actually use the term "Erectile Quality" in normal conversation. Now I need some way to legitamize my selection of "DESWADDLE-ING" verb, bi-transitive, to represent my word for THAT entrance. I gather the only existing legitimazation is inclusion in the OE. However, that is for words that are fully arrived, and not just the ones that are just to a-kind of a walking stage. If an organization could or would be instituted it will need a "Title Search Dept", because I have not even searched for "deswaddle" to see if someone else might claim it.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:19 am
mongrowl it seems to me that the words you are not talking about or not posng the question about as they are still a mish mash are not even at the "walking stage" but more at the wanking masturbation stage .. that is words carried on in the privacy of one's own mindroom and using ones own fantasies to bring forth an ejaculated mish mash of letters that end up as a sticky mess on the keyboard of your mind .. of course it is consensual masturbating ..
WoZ of Aus 10/01/05
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:25 am
WoZ, I have the notion that you guys down under don't have Merc style ads yet on TV. I think the Brits get cable american TV, so they have heard "erectile quality" on it. I gather you think I made it up??
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:11 am
Wiz, we must remember that according to Louis his words have no inherent meaning -- only things do. So our expectations of coherence from that quarter will need to be reduced accordingly.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:18 am
.. Louis we do have pedal TV Downunder and sometimes when the satellite is just right we can pick-up some american cable .. adding much to the dumbing down of our young people .. *grin* .. but mate I am not sure what you mean by a "Merc style ad" .. we get saturated on pay TV with Americanisms so maybe I have seen one .. can you tell me more ?? .. and I wasn't questioning the word per se but just where it stood on the conception, birth, crawl, walk, run scale .. you suggested "walk" I suggested a position much removed from that level ..
.. Erik I must admit that I do always walk in the same Quarter as Louis but when I do meet him at a corner I like to comment before he loses me in the backstreets again .. *smile* ..
WoZ of Aus 10/01/05
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:46 am
Please Erik, it is people who have meaning that they try to contain in words, for holding and trading, and even thinking, in which there is no inherent meaning except in the container sense.
WoZ, One of you Aussi,s blew the american drug companies out of the water a few years back when he found out the real reason for stomach ulcers. Here in the states, we no longer hear anything about ulcers, and the drug companies had 5/10 year business plans on their then existing prescription drugs that they were pressuring the FDA into allowing them to be sold over the counter. At that time, the drug companies sent their salesmen out to sell to doctors and if you see the "Merc manuals" back then, there was a certain professional patina to them that then started appearing in the common magazines in bits and drabs when the drug companies lost their prospective "cash cow". That same style has moved to TV for the modern love potions they are targeting the war baby's gray years with. The language is also a more 'crisp' and professional one with more names and adjectives that are slightly more scientific. They don't want to say things like 'aphrodisiac' so they are starting to invent. A more neutral 'erectile quality' is less negative than 'erectile disfunction. At some point you are bound to hear it in normal discourse if not for very long.
It is that entrance that I don't have a word for, and my foret was not serious enough to defend. For some reason lately, I have been wondering about an old word in american lore, of 'papoose', with its corresponding 'papoose board' in that was the method touted as keeping indian babies from crying. Swaddling was the only other term I could think of, that was not as outré(ootray) as papoose for that stage between birth and crawling. Now that I think of it though, I guess I need a term for between crawling and walking??
p.s. erectile & disfunction were not in my spell chkr.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:11 am
My mistake, apparently. You do at least appear to be consistent with the statement contained in the topic 'BLOG' for Dale
which I so grievously misrecalled:
Words do NOT have meaning,, Only people DO.
Words can "have" meaning only in a container sense."
In the light of this fact I must reword the assessment I supplied to the Wiz of Oz:
"We must remember that according to Louis his words have no inherent meaning -- only he does, and his words can "have" meaning only in a container sense."
The practical usefulness and applicability of your statements in this area continue to elude me. Actually, I believe that carried to its logical conclusion, your hairsplitting nitpickery will tend to cause any discussion about something that really matters to get bogged down in a futile logic-chopping morass in which nothing can be resolved because nobody is able (or in your case, willing) to agree on the significance of the basic terms in which the debate is being conducted, and everything becomes needlessly protracted and complicated.
If ever there was a case demonstration of the value of Occam's Razor and/or the sword of Alexander, this is it!
Finally, you seem to have introduced a confusion of the car manufacturer Mercedes (http://www.mercedes-benz.com
) -- whose product is popularly known as a Merc -- with the pharmeceutical company Merck (http://www.merck.com
). But even taking this fact into account, your pontifications make just as much sense now as they did before. In fact, you do not seem to know what you mean yourself -- if you mean anything at all, that is.
As a final final comment, Louis, you should be aware that some of the words you used are conventionally spelled 'dysfunction', 'Aussies', 'legitimize' (which gives rise to 'legitimation'), 'style', 'arrangement' and (in this instance) " war babies' " -- if pointing this out is not to attach excessive importance to the external form of words that are, as you would have it, mere containers.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm
Would very much appreciate definitions of 'Merc style," "deswaddle," "pedal tv"
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:33 pm
Erik, All points taken, except your overall conclusion.
Actually, I believe that carried to its logical conclusion, your hairsplitting nitpickery will ----
MY, MY, Such pessimism!
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:53 pm
What's wrong with "transition into (more) widespread usage" or something similar? It does have the distinct advantage that the majority of people would pretty readily understand what is meant. The fact that something is more or less a self-contained or complete concept does not mean that we always need a unique label to adequately identify it. Or, to shamelessly plagiarize Douglas Adams and John Lloyd, the fact that "the contents of a recently sneezed-into handkerchief" is more or less a single (and undoubtedly familiar) concept does not mean that we need the word "massachusetts" to label it.
If you feel the continued urge to be original, then I suppose a term might "outgrow its daipers".
for a brief destruction of one tongue-in-cheek suggestion for validation.
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:21 pm
Yes, all of your admonitions are not uncalled for, and I like the diaper connection. As I muse on what my motivation was or still is, I now think that what is really bothering me, is the slow realization that "THEY are winning" may be true. I can remember when it was a matter of pride that one "was immune from being manipulated by commercials". I don't get that impression nowadays. Finding a word to describe a fear is one way to get a handle on that problem. I rue the day I hear that phrase. I think I will stop there before I slippery slide into the dyfunck that Erik is busily pointing out.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:53 am
Dale .. "pedal TV" was made-up on the spot by me as a rejoinder to have a shot at Louis when he suggested that >> I have the notion that you guys down under don't have Merc style ads yet on TV. I think the Brits get cable american TV, ...." .. the implication being that our TV programs were old fashioned and not up with current american magic .. so, you have probably heard of "pedal radios" as being a very primitive style of radio ?? .. then by extension I was suggesting to Louis that yes it was true that Downunder we only had pedal TV and that we had to get the satellite just right to get any TV broadcasts .. it was a joke mate .. *smile* ..
WoZ of Aus 12/01/05
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:02 pm
Louis it is interesting that you are looking for a new word to describe the process of when a word moves from printed form into general usage .. Ken and I most often debate the reverse situation in that I believe that the first instance of when a word is recorded in print does NOT substantiate when and where that word derived from .. it is naturally a very important step in tracing the origins of words but, as Ken is aware, I argue that many words have been used in spoken form long long before they appear in print and it is possible that the word has changed countries and cultures before it is recorded .. some words are never recorded .. spoken word precedes written word .. but as you identify here for "erectile quality" it can happen in reverse .. but I must say that I totally agree with Phil White's observation with regard as to why do we even need a "new" word ?? ..
WoZ of Aus 12/01/05
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:29 pm
Similarly to the 'pedal TV' that WoZ mentions, in Britain an old-fashioned valve radio set, or even a radio broadcast, is sometimes jocularly referred to as 'steam radio'.